No Money Economy-unrealistic and stupid

[Mark]

In the non cannon world, replicators are said to use stocks of base matter which they turn into other forms; they don't just beam mass out of pure energy. It makes sense, but like I said - non canon.

Even so, there's an awful lot of matter around in the universe. If you can cram any old crap into the replicator, push a button and have it become gold bars...

Money is, essentially, a method of rationing out resources. Balancing supply and demand. But if replicators make the means of production comprehensively outweigh demand... why have money?

I'm having a brain fart here. But wasn't it said somewhere that latnum COULDN'T be replicated? How can you realistically have something like that where you CAN'T scan and duplicate its molecular structure???

[Coalition]

I'm having a brain fart here. But wasn't it said somewhere that latnum COULDN'T be replicated? How can you realistically have something like that where you CAN'T scan and duplicate its molecular structure???

If you mean where the replicator can't make things, or where replicators actually introduce errors (and the pattern of errors is different for each empire), then it is easily possible for a material to be non-replicable.

Even if something is replicable, remember DS9? The Cardassians used it as a refining facility worked by Bajoran slaves, and while the Federation was in charge of the station the place acted as a trading outpost.

I'd see the replicator being used for prototype and emergency parts, while actual factories produce quality items. Replicators are smaller, so are useful on a starship where space is at a premium. A factory provides better quality items, but needs more square footage. Federation ships are designed to use replicated items, and have a safety margin built in to allow for the single-bit errors.

[Mikey]

But wasn't it said somewhere that latnum COULDN'T be replicated?

Yes, which is why it was considered a precious enough commodity to be used as money. Neither could be replicated (as Seafort would point out, if I didn't ) a steel hatch cover by the E-D.

[Mark]

Not so much as it couldn't be as it wouldn't be.

[Avatar2312]

While reading this thread I remembered Alien - Resurrection, where cash was used to make a transaction that was not completely legal.

I don't know exactly how to work it out, but wouldn't it be wise to create an electric currency like "Federation credit", which can be used to acquire stuff within the federation. GPL (Latinum) then can be exchanged for an amount of FEDCr by the citizens? This of course requires the Federation to keep an reserve of GPL distributed among its worlds, so that people who needed it could get it rather quickly. GPL is used for international transactions where required (if the other nation doesn't trade its goods in FEDCr or the traded goods should not show on any record.

Quark for example used most likely Federation e-currency in his bar for standard orders, that were legal. But whenever it came to contraband or something not strictly legal, the deal was paid by a form of physical currency (GPL in most cases).

So we have the Federation and the replicators fulfilling tha basic needs of all citizens. The e-currency for luxury commodities or vacations or who knows what that is legal and may show on records. And the hard currency like latinum for international transactions where the credit is of no use. Since the Ferengi are the makers of standardizing international trade on a galactic scale, many other nations would have likely adopted the latinum as secondary currency. Additionally having a reserve in latinum can back the prime currency in cases of economic depression.

[Mikey]

but wouldn't it be wise to create an electric currency like "Federation credit", which can be used to acquire stuff within the federation.

Virtual money (which we call "credit," BTW) still presupposes a currency-based economy... which is stated to not be the case (at least within the UFP.) If it weren't so, I'd agree with you as far as exchanging it for something when necessary to trade outside the Federation, except for one niggling point: it's self-defeating. If the UFP exchanges x amount of latinum for x amount of "virtual UFP bucks," it realizes a loss in actuality. It can't do anything with the concept of money it just received, but its latinum reserve has just become smaller by x. If you're unsure, go to the US government, wave a $20 bill at someone, and tell them you need to cash it in for its gold value. Ummm... oh yeah, that's why we don't back the money as such anymore.

Quark for example used most likely Federation e-currency in his bar for standard orders, that were legal.

I would only think that he would do so if such Fed currency were in some way promissory.

[Tyyr]

I'm fairly confident that you simply can't resolve this problem. There's too much evidence both for and against both sides for either to claim victory. At some point you have to pick a side, accept that based off your interpretation sometimes characters are either liars or idiots and move on.

[Mark]

I'm fairly confident that you simply can't resolve this problem. There's too much evidence both for and against both sides for either to claim victory. At some point you have to pick a side, accept that based off your interpretation sometimes WRITERS are either liars or idiots and move on.

Fixed

[Avatar2312]

Virtual money (which we call "credit," BTW) still presupposes a currency-based economy... which is stated to not be the case (at least within the UFP.) If it weren't so, I'd agree with you as far as exchanging it for something when necessary to trade outside the Federation, except for one niggling point: it's self-defeating. If the UFP exchanges x amount of latinum for x amount of "virtual UFP bucks," it realizes a loss in actuality. It can't do anything with the concept of money it just received, but its latinum reserve has just become smaller by x. If you're unsure, go to the US government, wave a $20 bill at someone, and tell them you need to cash it in for its gold value. Ummm... oh yeah, that's why we don't back the money as such anymore.

Well. It was never stated that there was no form of currency within the Federation, only that there was no money. But every economy needs something that gives value to a service you provide or to the goods you want to exchange. Meaning that there is no poverty, doesn't mean that there aren't people that have more and people that have less than a certain average as long as everyone has enough to live a somewhat good life. since this currency is only of use outside the Federation if the other nation also values it in some way, it would be logical that there is a hard galactic currency recognized by most powers (at least in a specific region) which can be traded for the national e-currency by any citizen. E.g. if some UFP citicen wants a vacation on Quo'nos or a sightseeing tour on praxis remains AND there is no direct exchange between Klingon and Federation e-currency. Since GPL is virtually of no use for "shopping" within the Federation it is ensured, that it is traded back into FEDCr by every outside company, that has an office within federation space. GPL merely serves as inter-currency-value (or for trading goods not strictly legal) - except for the Ferengi Alliance where it is the primary currency and people love walking around with thick and heavy purses.

I would only think that he would do so if such Fed currency were in some way promissory.

Well... he can trade it for GPL. But to resupply his bar with federation goods for federation customers he also needs FEDCr because no federation company has much use for GPL.

The Federation itself can increase its own amount of GPL by mining Latinum and selling goods international, although it is unclear if and how it would affect the value of it since it is most likely not too easy to mine. That is the only inconsistence - sadly it is a big one if we dont know how much it is worth actually.

[Mikey]

Saying that there is currency other than money is meaningless. Money is the name for currency other than barter.

[Mikey]

BTW, Quark shouldn't need Fed cred to buy Fed goods. Since you posited that it could be exchanged for latinum, the reverse exchange would necessarily be extant. When my Dad ate at Simpson's-in-the-Strand, the maitre d' accepted dollars.

[Mark]

To take it a step further, if Fed credits could only be used within the Fed.....they would have an extremely crappy exchange rate.