What If Vader Had Survived?

[Lt. Staplic]

Indeed, and even if we were dealing with Anakin (it's not as if the two are easily separable - the names are simply an easy way of referring to facets of the same person) that isn't a guarantee that he'd be opposed to the Empire - he was always a great fan of highly centralised government.

I know, it was just something someone (Seafort I think?) brought up that it didn't look like anyone had answered.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Anakin is Vader. Vader is Anakin. They're the same person. Just one has breathing problems from time to time.

[Deepcrush]

More like a multiple personality problem.

[Lt. Staplic]

Anakin is Vader. Vader is Anakin. They're the same person. Just one has breathing problems from time to time.

I disagree I think there's a slight difference...

Anakin does what he thinks is right or for what he thinks are for the right reasons...

Vader is somewhat disallusioned in that he knows what he is doing is wrong, and yet thinks its what he should do anyway.

this is all IMO of course, obviously there's no way I can support the claim, but it is how I see it.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

I've always felt that saying they're two different people is a semi-absolvement of his guilt and his actions. Some people push it to the extreme and say Anakin's entirely not at fault for what happened, which I call bullshit. There's difference... but they're the same person. Anakin Sktywalker murdered children. He sliced off Mace's arm and helped Palaptine establish the New Order.

[Lt. Staplic]

I've always felt that saying they're two different people is a semi-absolvement of his guilt and his actions. Some people push it to the extreme and say Anakin's entirely not at fault for what happened, which I call bullshit. There's difference... but they're the same person. Anakin Sktywalker murdered children. He sliced off Mace's arm and helped Palaptine establish the New Order.

no, I'm not absolving him of his guilt....he is responsible for allowing himself to become Vader (if that makes sense), however I don't believe it was Anakin that did kill the children that was Vader...but I'm not differentiating them to the point that Anakin couldn't be held responsible...

[Monroe]

I think they're the same person. People can turn dark and twisted after an event in their life. That doesn't make the person a different person.

[McAvoy]

What I never got is HOW the dark side changes someone to be a different person but when they come back to the light side whatever they did while in the dark side is bad but not their fault? I mean they're the same person deep down but twisted. How does the dark side do that? It seems like the Jedi and the Sith can't switch to one side to the other without some changes to their personality.

I do agree that while Vader did revert back to Anakin saving Luke, it still wouldn't change his own ideals. Anakin was always trying to save his loved ones even as Vader.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

What I never got is HOW the dark side changes someone to be a different person but when they come back to the light side whatever they did while in the dark side is bad but not their fault? I mean they're the same person deep down but twisted. How does the dark side do that? It seems like the Jedi and the Sith can't switch to one side to the other without some changes to their personality.

I do agree that while Vader did revert back to Anakin saving Luke, it still wouldn't change his own ideals. Anakin was always trying to save his loved ones even as Vader.

Precisely. There is no real difference between Vader and Anakin. Anakin Skywalker sliced off Mace's arm, butchered the children, killed the Separatist Counsil, Force-choked his pregnant wife and was sealed up into the armor.

[stitch626]

What I never got is HOW the dark side changes someone to be a different person but when they come back to the light side whatever they did while in the dark side is bad but not their fault? I mean they're the same person deep down but twisted. How does the dark side do that? It seems like the Jedi and the Sith can't switch to one side to the other without some changes to their personality.

I do agree that while Vader did revert back to Anakin saving Luke, it still wouldn't change his own ideals. Anakin was always trying to save his loved ones even as Vader.

Precisely. There is no real difference between Vader and Anakin. Anakin Skywalker sliced off Mace's arm, butchered the children, killed the Separatist Counsil, Force-choked his pregnant wife and was sealed up into the armor.

I would argue that it wasn't Anakin who did all those things (well, maybe on the chopping Mace's arm). The dark side is like a drug, a steroid. Imagine if steroids were floating around and everyone could get them inside without any work, even accidentally.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

I would argue that it wasn't Anakin who did all those things (well, maybe on the chopping Mace's arm). The dark side is like a drug, a steroid. Imagine if steroids were floating around and everyone could get them inside without any work, even accidentally.

And who took the drug? Anakin took the drug. He willingly did all those things, all for a wife he Force-choked and tried to kill.

The Dark Side warps you and twists you, but it doesn't change you. Anakin made the decision.

[stitch626]

I would argue that it wasn't Anakin who did all those things (well, maybe on the chopping Mace's arm). The dark side is like a drug, a steroid. Imagine if steroids were floating around and everyone could get them inside without any work, even accidentally.

And who took the drug? Anakin took the drug. He willingly did all those things, all for a wife he Force-choked and tried to kill.

The Dark Side warps you and twists you, but it doesn't change you. Anakin made the decision.

He chose to take it after he already became "addicted" to it. The dark side began affecting him long before he cut off Mace's hand. All the way in Ep II he encountered it.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

In some of the EU, he encountered it when he was still a kid. He took the Dark Side, and it twisted him... but he was still and always will be Anakin Skywalker. Even while Vader... especially when Vader.

[stitch626]

In some of the EU, he encountered it when he was still a kid. He took the Dark Side, and it twisted him... but he was still and always will be Anakin Skywalker. Even while Vader... especially when Vader.

If someone is slipped something in their drink and goes nuts killing someone else, they are not legally accountable. The dark side can be like such a drug, and it isn't necessary to seek it out. The dark side can be encountered at any point if a force user gets emotional or even if they visit certain areas of the galaxy.

[Lt. Staplic]

In some of the EU, he encountered it when he was still a kid. He took the Dark Side, and it twisted him... but he was still and always will be Anakin Skywalker. Even while Vader... especially when Vader.

If someone is slipped something in their drink and goes nuts killing someone else, they are not legally accountable. The dark side can be like such a drug, and it isn't necessary to seek it out. The dark side can be encountered at any point if a force user gets emotional or even if they visit certain areas of the galaxy.

Then why aren't there more Sith...

The dark side is more like hypnosis, It can convince you to do stuff you normally wouldn't, but only if your personality would allow you to do so. For example, I couldn't be hypnotised to kill someone in cold blood because under no cercumstances would I do that...Anakin may have been 'intoxicated' by the Dark Side, but those were all things that he was capable of doing.