Ways that Earthforce could have at least forced a Stalemate.

SuperSaiyaMan12 · Post by **SuperSaiyaMan12** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:54 am

..in the Earth-Minbari War. The Minbari were able to prevail due to their superior technology, couldn't a superior strategist on Earthforce's side either force a stalemate or turn the war around completely? What would you have done in the War if you were commanding a Fleet?

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:12 am

To win... Nothing, nothing at all. EA didn't have a hope in hell of winning that war.

As to a stalemate, pulling back to Sol and just mining the whole system in the way that Sheridan did against the Black Star is about all they can do. If they can't match the range of the Minbari then they need to force the battles to be at very short range. Outside of that, EA did pretty good seeing that they lasted as long as they did.

SuperSaiyaMan12 · Post by **SuperSaiyaMan12** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:27 am

Deepcrush wrote:To win... Nothing, nothing at all. EA didn't have a hope in hell of winning that war.

Even if someone like Revan or Grand Admiral Thrawn were placed in charge of the EarthForce Fleets?

Lighthawk · Post by **Lighthawk** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:48 am

The EF winning against the Mimbari would have been like Iraq beating the US military. The tech difference is such that only complete stupidity by the Mimbari could have lead to a win. And depending on the incompetence of your enemies is a very poor way to plan a war.

Monroe · Post by **Monroe** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:01 am

Why didn't they hyperjump a massive fleet over the Minbari capital world and just drop mass drivers in? Yeah I'm sure a big fleet is protecting it. Yeah I bet its a suicide mission. But after a year or so you'd think they would try. I bet it would only take a dozen or so hits for the planet to be uninhabitable.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:21 am

SuperSaiyaMan12 wrote:Even if someone like Revan or Grand Admiral Thrawn were placed in charge of the EarthForce Fleets?

Revan was just in the right place at the right time and fought against a Republic that wasn't really mind set on the war.

Thrawn was a dreamer trying to rebuild an empire that was falling apart around him.

Aside from being very close to vs. Neither of these guys have ever shown their ability to defeat an enemy ten times their might. Plus they both were defeated in the end should tell you something.

Lighthawk wrote:The EF winning against the Mimbari would have been like Iraq beating the US military. The tech difference is such that only complete stupidity by the Mimbari could have lead to a win. And depending on the incompetence of your enemies is a very poor way to plan a war.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head.

Monroe wrote:Why didn't they hyperjump a massive fleet over the Minbari capital world and just drop mass drivers in? Yeah I'm sure a big fleet is protecting it. Yeah I bet its a suicide mission. But after a year or so you'd think they would try. I bet it would only take a dozen or so hits for the planet to be uninhabitable.

You're fighting a holy war where the entire race is willing to die in order to win because you just killed their greatest leader in a thousand years. Glassing their homeworld would just drive them into a mass rage. Bad idea if you want to force a stalemate or force the Minbari out of the war.

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The only way to do anything against the Minbari is to just bleed them. Tighten your lines so much that they just have no choice but to launch a head on attack. ODPs, Starfurys and Novas behind a wall of space mines. Put them in a place where they can't advance anymore and where if they want to attack then they will have to accept massive losses for little or no real gain. IE - Vietnam

SuperSaiyaMan12 · Post by **SuperSaiyaMan12** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:37 am

Deepcrush wrote:
SuperSaiyaMan12 wrote:Even if someone like Revan or Grand Admiral Thrawn were placed in charge of the EarthForce Fleets?
Revan was just in the right place at the right time and fought against a Republic that wasn't really mind set on the war.

Thrawn was a dreamer trying to rebuild an empire that was falling apart around him.

Aside from being very close to vs. Neither of these guys have ever shown their ability to defeat an enemy ten times their might. Plus they both were defeated in the end should tell you something.

You do know that Thrawn was able to defeat a fleet of Trade Federation ships (three battleships with 1500 fighters each as well as a few Hardcell Cruisers) with just three picket cruisers and six fighters, right? And Revan was the reason why the Sith lost in the Jedi Civil War.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:51 am

SuperSaiyaMan12 wrote:You do know that Thrawn was able to defeat a fleet of Trade Federation ships (three battleships with 1500 fighters each as well as a few Hardcell Cruisers) with just three picket cruisers and six fighters, right?

Quasi-canon stories that are about as useful as the KT 3million clones deal. Even if this really mattered, he'd have to do this a dozen times over the course of two years without a single loss. Good luck with that.

And Revan was the reason why the Sith lost in the Jedi Civil War.

When he changed sides, right, I know that. In other words, the side he was leading was losing and he had the chance to switch teams and he did.

In the end, both of these guys failed in what they had tried to do. One was redeemed, the other was killed.

SuperSaiyaMan12 · Post by **SuperSaiyaMan12** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:18 am

Deepcrush wrote:
SuperSaiyaMan12 wrote:You do know that Thrawn was able to defeat a fleet of Trade Federation ships (three battleships with 1500 fighters each as well as a few Hardcell Cruisers) with just three picket cruisers and six fighters, right?
Quasi-canon stories that are about as useful as the KT 3million clones deal. Even if this really mattered, he'd have to do this a dozen times over the course of two years without a single loss. Good luck with that.

Uh, Outbound Flight is on the same level of canon as the Thrawn Trilogy, and written by the SAME AUTHOR. And its not like Karen Traviss.

And he DID. Thrawn basically did go down undefeated. Even after his death, his fleet was still WINNING at Billbringi. The Imperials withdrew because Pellaeon withdrew.

And Revan was the reason why the Sith lost in the Jedi Civil War.
When he changed sides, right, I know that. In other words, the side he was leading was losing and he had the chance to switch teams and he did.

In the end, both of these guys failed in what they had tried to do. One was redeemed, the other was killed.

Uh the Sith were WINNING most of the war. He didn't 'switch sides'. He was brainwashed into fighting for the Republic who was still losing against the Sith Empire.

Reliant121 · Post by **Reliant121** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:14 am

Tactics don't have any channc. The problem is that pure tactics alone isnt enough, the Minbari are just far superior in both tactics and technology. Earthforce didnt have a hope in hell, unless they suddenly got their hands on First one technology.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:05 pm

Monroe wrote:Why didn't they hyperjump a massive fleet over the Minbari capital world and just drop mass drivers in? Yeah I'm sure a big fleet is protecting it. Yeah I bet its a suicide mission. But after a year or so you'd think they would try. I bet it would only take a dozen or so hits for the planet to be uninhabitable.

I don't think the EA even knew where the Minbari worlds were, they had just a vague idea where their space even was.

Reliant121 · Post by **Reliant121** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:56 pm

Think about it. The EA fleet interrupted the Minbari task force that was carrying the Grey Council and Dukat on the very edge of Minbari space. The human ships were likely so far from anything remotely important in Minbari technology, that they would never even breach the Minbari border. The Minbari, in a fit of vengeance attacked the EA on all sides. The borders of the EA would have crumbled like dust.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:08 pm

I think its agreed here that victory for the EA is just out of the question. IMO though, a stalemate may not have been.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:32 pm

They possibly could have hit the Minbari at home if they spammed their space with hyperspace capable drones (armed with nukes) but that would require having at least some idea where they were located and would have left the very real chance of hitting a non-Minbari world.

Reliant121 · Post by **Reliant121** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:51 pm

If the EA started using Gorilla tactics like Sheridan did to get the Black Star, then they could have at least annoyed the Minbari enough to stalemate if it were not for one thing. The Minbari were insane, completely enranged. Upon Delenn's order after the Prometheus opened fire, the Grey Council agreed to at least enact vengeance for that attack. But the Minbari population turned it into a crusade, a holy war to annihilate Humanity. You can't stop a people that are enraged beyond reason or wisdom, gripped by passionate vengeance. Even if the EA somehow had a technological edge, they would still be facing a race that burned with collective hatred that knows no bounds.

Ways that Earthforce could have at least forced a Stalemate.

Ways that Earthforce could have at least forced a Stalemate.

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