Transformers: Revenge Of The Fallen

[Lt. Staplic]

As to the humans, you're right, it was hard for them to have any effect in battle. But then again its just as important that they tried and were willing to pay the price side by side with the Autobots.

Well put.

[Lighthawk]

I guess that's all very noble and all that, but if they're going to putting their lives on the line, shouldn't they at least be doing so in the most effective manner possible? Replace all those assault rifles with RPGs and use some mass fire tactics and then the humans could have actually added a nice punch to the fight. I look at fighting a transformer as fighting a highly mobile tank. You don't fight tanks with guns and win, you fight them with high explosives, preferablly shaped or pentrating explosives.

[Deepcrush]

Soldiers don't always get to pick what they take too battle. That was the point for the end battle.

[Lighthawk]

Soldiers don't always get to pick what they take too battle. That was the point for the end battle.

But these were soliders who worked specifically with the autobots, specifically to fight decipicons. They should be armed with appropriate weapons. If my team was going on a tank hunting mission and command only gave us rifles, I'd be telling them where to stick it.

[Deepcrush]

No, you wouldn't. You'd plant a trap and draw them in for fire from your air support. Just like the guys in the movie did.

[Lighthawk]

No, you wouldn't. You'd plant a trap and draw them in for fire from your air support. Just like the guys in the movie did.

That's assuming you had air support. But for the guys in the movie, then why bother giving them guns at all? Shouldn't they have just had a handful of guys with laser designators for artillery/air support? Their guns are just useless weight, I'm not going to lug around a weapon that can't even hurt my enemy, it'll just slow me down.

[Deepcrush]

Slow you down for what? You're in a defensive position. Take what you can get or just run away. Every bullet is a chance to do something. Even if its just a lucky round that hits an area that was damaged by a more powerful weapon earlier on.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

I don't believe they had much of a choice in the final battle, with the senator watching them before getting

tricked into parachuting out.

[Lighthawk]

Slow you down for what? You're in a defensive position. Take what you can get or just run away. Every bullet is a chance to do something. Even if its just a lucky round that hits an area that was damaged by a more powerful weapon earlier on.

I'd rather not gamble my life on a lucky hit, nor would I put my faith in a weapon that is only going to be useful after a more powerful weapon tears open my target's armor for me first. I'd rather have a one shot weapon that I know can do damage then a several hundred shot weapon that MIGHT get a chance to cause damage.

And they were in a defensive postion in the end, but not in the beginning. The opening battle they were taking the fight to the decepticon, and just about every solider was hauling a big gun that might as well have been a pea shooter for all the good those weapons did in the battle.

[Deepcrush]

I'd rather not gamble my life on a lucky hit, nor would I put my faith in a weapon that is only going to be useful after a more powerful weapon tears open my target's armor for me first. I'd rather have a one shot weapon that I know can do damage then a several hundred shot weapon that MIGHT get a chance to cause damage.

The end problem still remains. Just because you don't have what you want doesn't mean you give up the fight. You've got your boots, weapon and a good man next to you. Things could be worse.

And they were in a defensive postion in the end, but not in the beginning. The opening battle they were taking the fight to the decepticon, and just about every solider was hauling a big gun that might as well have been a pea shooter for all the good those weapons did in the battle.

In the opening battle they had a dozen Autobots, Gunships, fast-movers with .50 cals and 40mm GLs. They went there pretty well prepared for what they expected to face.

[Lighthawk]

The end problem still remains. Just because you don't have what you want doesn't mean you give up the fight. You've got your boots, weapon and a good man next to you. Things could be worse.

That's not what I'm arguing, I'm arguing that it is rather stupid for a team specially put together to fight giant robots is being armed with weapons that could only inflict harm on said enemy under very limited circumstances involving a great deal of luck. An assault rifle would be for all practical purposes useless against the enemy force these men are tasked with fighting. What purpose is there for them to even have such a weapon as an option at all?

In the opening battle they had a dozen Autobots, Gunships, fast-movers with .50 cals and 40mm GLs. They went there pretty well prepared for what they expected to face.

And yet, they were still toting their pretty much useless rifles. The rest of the stuff, good, spot on, that's exactly what they should have been bringing. But the rifles should have been left behind.

[Tsukiyumi]

Didn't they figure out to use HEAT rounds in grenade launchers in the first movie?

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Didn't they figure out to use HEAT rounds in grenade launchers in the first movie?

Yeah. Them not using them in the first battle in China is a real head-scratcher. For Egypt, less head-scratchy.

[Lt. Staplic]

That's not what I'm arguing, I'm arguing that it is rather stupid for a team specially put together to fight giant robots is being armed with weapons that could only inflict harm on said enemy under very limited circumstances involving a great deal of luck. An assault rifle would be for all practical purposes useless against the enemy force these men are tasked with fighting. What purpose is there for them to even have such a weapon as an option at all?

Dealing with the Egypt Battle, they didn't have the option to get even close to their normal weaponry, they took what they could find on a ride that was supposed to go back to base, not into a war zone. So for that battle the fact that they didn't have much artillery is a mute point, they didn't have the opportunity to get it weather they were normally outfitted with it or not.

And the Rifles do appear to be a good defensive weapon, against the machines...for example in the first one the team was able to hold of the scorpion using only their rifles, my guess is that the transformers realize that moving around to much will expose those vital spots that could give their enemy a lucky shot. Hence why their issued, they're good for distraction/defense while the big guns are being brought it.

[Sionnach Glic]

Well, I'm just back from seeing it. After hearing so much bad stuff about it, I was ready to hate it going in. That said, overall I think it was quite good. Better than the first one, in my opinion. Below is my random thoughts on the movie, in no real sense of order.

The camera work was much better during the battles, and it was far easier to see what was happening. Big improvement there. Also, the film itself seemed to be better paced, and more organised than the first movie.

My love/hate relationship with the human cast continued in this film.
Sam was still an utter nuisance, I still didn't give a shit about his relationship with Mikaela, and the conspiracy theorist roomate was fucking annoying (BTW, why didn't he get his face smashed in when the car hit the ground after being dropped by Blackout? Sam and Mikaela were only saved by the airbags.).
The military guys were still cool and relatively competant, and Simmons was a massive improvement over his 1st film incarnation. I'm also glad to see that Pentagon Secretary and Black Hacker from the first film were absent from this one.
Sam's parents, on the other hand, were just fucking annoying and pointless. They served no purpose other than to eat up screen time, and Sam's mother getting high should have been cut in favour of more mechanical ass-kicking.

I'm a bit dissapointed that most of the Autobots from the original movie got shoved into the background in this one, though some of the new ones were pretty cool. A shame none of them got any actual development or, you know, names in many cases.

The twins were as annoying as I'd been led to believe they were, and utterly unfunny. That said, they weren't as prominant as the trailers and other reviews had led me to believe, so that was a bit of a relief. I think it was quite telling that a small cheer went up from the back of the cinema when the red one (Mudflap, right?) almost got eaten by Devastator.

Optimus certainly showed us what he could do in this movie. The battle in the forrest against Blackout, Starscream and Megatron was great, and he clearly kicked ass in the final battle against The Fallen and Megatron.
Give me your face!

Bumblebee was pretty cool, though why doesn't he speak any more? His voice was fixed at the end of the first movie. Still, it adds a bit of flavour to his character, so I'm willing to overlook it.

The Decepticons continued the movie tradition of having bad guys far cooler than good guys. Although he didn't do much, Soundwave was pretty cool. The panther-transformer (did he get a name?) was great, and I loved the paper-thin mini-Transformer he was carrying.

Devastator was both great and a complete let-down. As soon as I saw him I thought "now there's gonna be carnage", but he actualy did fuck all. He was criminaly underused, and became nothing more than a minor sideshow. And why the hell did he have testicles?

One thing I disliked was the sudden arrival of a brigade of Redshirts namelss Decepticons at the end. Where the hell where they earlier? And why were they utterly unable to cause any casualties to the Autobots? In fact, I think the only Autobots who died in the final battle were Arcee and Jetfire (on that note, it was nice to see Scorponok back for a brief cameo), while dozens of the Decepticons went down. When the hell did they turn into Stormtroopers?

The end battle was certainly cool, but I think at the same time it could have been a lot better. Personaly, instead of the mass arrival of dozens of unamed generic Decepticons, I think it would have been better if the final battle had been Devastator versus the Autobots and humans, while The Fallen and Megatron worked to get the sun-buster weapon working. Preferably with a number of Autobot casualties. Then the readying of the railgun would at least have had some sense of urgency around it, and Devastator would have actualy played a role in the movie.

Although I can see clearly where its detractors are coming from (indeed, in many cases I agree with them), I still think it was a damn good movie. Definitely an enjoyable watch, and I'll be picking it up when it comes out on DVD. That said, it's by no means a masterpiece.