Steamrunner, Norway, and Saber Class.......what's the point?

[Deepcrush]

The problem is that the Breen entry to the war was a daring but meaningless action that cost them a fleet that would have been better spent attacking a shipyard. If not for the EDW the whole Breen fleet would have been nothing more then replacements for Dominion Bugs lost in combat.

[Bryan Moore]

Do we know how big this fleet was? And maybe in terms of numbers it wasn't that huge of a loss for Earth, but psychologically, it could have been huge had the Cardassian uprising not turned the tide of the war.

[Deepcrush]

It was the only KNOWN offensive launched by the Breen at their entry to the war. The damage was minimal. If it had been worse then we would have heard about it. That and even with the Breen the Dominion still was on the losing foot when they lost the EDW. My guess is that the attack on earth must have been costly or they wouldn't have cared as they did. Also, they didn't really add much to the overall ability of the Dominion's combat ability. Within months of entering the war they were preparing for a last stand.

The Cardassian Uprising was more useful in buying time for the Allies to bypass the EDW without having to replace every warp engines in their combined fleets. Had Dumar had launched his uprising on Cardassia Prime rather then just on their outposts. He could have turned CP into a siege forcing the Cardassian forces (loyal to him or not) to race home and defend CP from Dominion retaliation.

[eagle_GT]

Maybe the attack on earth was more of an attempt to make the UFP pull ships off the front lines. Send just enough ships to fight a running battle to earth and get off a few strikes against ground targets before they are destroyed. The polititans demand more protection, forcing the fleet to split it's forces to defend earth.

[Deepcrush]

Sol already had defenses around it. The 2nd fleet must have been close due too that Admiral's complaint about pulling them too take back DS9. Plus the defenses we saw from Endgame. What you said makes sense and I could see someone trying that. Problem for the Breen is it back fired. They lost a large number of ships for nothing other then saying "we got you". Since the UFP has the "we killed the founders" card... the UFP takes the win.

[Tsukiyumi]

...Plus the defenses we saw from Endgame...

That was years later, though. There's no way to say for sure what kind of defenses the Breen ran into. Where were the Earth defenses during "Paradise Lost"? The Defiant was considered rogue, but was only challenged by one ship (one of my favorites, admittedly, but...)?

Maybe when a few Admiral's condos were blasted in the Breen attack, they finally committed substantial forces to Earth's defense.

[Deepcrush]

That was years later, though. There's no way to say for sure what kind of defenses the Breen ran into.

Before the SoA, SF was worried about removing the 2nd fleet as it was PART of the defenses around Earth. The Breen more then likely raced to Earth thinking that the defenses hadn't changed since the start of the war only to see a wall of ships in front of them.

Where were the Earth defenses during "Paradise Lost"? The Defiant was considered rogue, but was only challenged by one ship (one of my favorites, admittedly, but...)?

The defenses were still there. Layton had to send a ship that was loyal to him. He couldn't send just any ship otherwise the Defiant wouldn't have been stopped.

Maybe when a few Admiral's condos were blasted in the Breen attack, they finally committed substantial forces to Earth's defense.

I'd bet that the Borg attack handled this problem nicely.

[Tsukiyumi]

That was years later, though. There's no way to say for sure what kind of defenses the Breen ran into.

Before the SoA, SF was worried about removing the 2nd fleet as it was PART of the defenses around Earth. The Breen more then likely raced to Earth thinking that the defenses hadn't changed since the start of the war only to see a wall of ships in front of them.

I can believe that.

Where were the Earth defenses during "Paradise Lost"? The Defiant was considered rogue, but was only challenged by one ship (one of my favorites, admittedly, but...)?

The defenses were still there. Layton had to send a ship that was loyal to him. He couldn't send just any ship otherwise the Defiant wouldn't have been stopped.

Why couldn't he send other ships? He could claim that the Defiant crew had been overrun with Founders. He's an Admiral; people tend to listen when they speak.

Maybe when a few Admiral's condos were blasted in the Breen attack, they finally committed substantial forces to Earth's defense.

I'd bet that the Borg attack handled this problem nicely.

You'd think so, but if any Breen ships got through, they certainly weren't prepared for another Cube.

Was the FC battle before or after the Breen attack?

[Deepcrush]

Why couldn't he send other ships? He could claim that the Defiant crew had been overrun with Founders. He's an Admiral; people tend to listen when they speak.

Sure they would follow his orders. They would stop the Defiant and subject the crew to genetic testing as is SOP. Layton needed the Defiant STOPPED, not slowed down and given a chance to hand evidence of his treason over to a fleet of ships.

You'd think so, but if any Breen ships got through, they certainly weren't prepared for another Cube.

Maybe, maybe not. By the damage we saw. A single ship could have done that just on a whim. No real effort to cause damage otherwise the city would have been leveled. A fleet of small and fast ships are far more difficult to engage and halt then a single large ship. Though on the same account, the lack of real damage could show they WERE pretty well prepared.

[Deepcrush]

Sorry, missed this.

Was the FC battle before or after the Breen attack?

That I don't know.

[Sionnach Glic]

After, I'd assume.

[Sonic Glitch]

Sorry, missed this.

Was the FC battle before or after the Breen attack?

That I don't know.

First Contact is generally considered 2373 isn't it? That's when the War started. In face, I recall reading somewhere (I don't remember where, maybe the old Star Trek Magazine) that there's a uniform discrepancy between FC and DS9 The gray and black uniforms are shown in DS9, before (according to stardates and such) they show up in DS9, which is around the start of the war.

[Mikey]

If the 2nd Fleet was committed to the defense of Sol, then WTF happened to it? The breen ships reached Earth unmolested. Sure, they got their icy asses handed to them once they were there - but letting an enemy thorugh to its target and relying on its impotence is hardly a decent defense strategy.

[Tyyr]

It sounds cliche and dismissive but I'm dead serious when I say, this is the Federation we're talking about.

These are the people who are constantly attacked yet worry about looking to militaristic to others which might... make them attack.
They allow entire species of sapient creatures to go extinct because they haven't reached an arbitrary technological milestone.
They willingly carry non-combatants and children on what are at least partially front line warships.

[Mikey]

Yeah, I know. But I can still call them on not making sense, even when I expect them to not make sense.