Vulcan colonies and super-strength

[Granitehewer]

hey
If vulcans have their imposing physical strength due to the intricacies of the gravitational forces on their homeworld, would this be true of vulcans born on their colonies, with ancestors stemming back to the first pioneers on those worlds?
I'm assuming so as even if there were selection pressures favouring a lesser physique, surely it would take tens of thousands of years to occurm due to gestation periods etc.
Thus why is it assumed that the romulans don't have the vulcan super-strength, as even accounting for genetic drift and the founder effect, the timeframe is too short?
The only time i recall seeing rommies in fisticuffs was 'visionary' and even then half were holding their own and actually beating their klingon opponents.
Does anyone think that the vulcan super-strength may in part be due to their mental discipline, a sort of chi if you will?
regards as always
pete

[Mikey]

I had always heard it described (obliquely) as being related to the gravity and harshness of Vulcan. Of course, as you say, that was brought about by the environmental pressures of many millenia, and wouldn't be "bred out" by a few centuries on a lower-g colony world.

When did Romulus split from Vulcan? If it was early enough, the vaunted Vulcan strength might not have been present in its full, modern form. Alternatively, if Romulus has a high degree of natural radiation, natural selection may have favored other traits that appeared in pools which may not have had the same physical strenght, yet those genomes would have been passed on as that strength was no longer necessary to pass the screening process of natural selection.

Of course, you could also be right about the Vulcans being able to deliver a silent mental "kiai" with every blow.

[Praeothmin]

Although in the new ST movie, the Romulans and Vulcans both have super strength, as demonstrated in the fights against Kirk...

Also, who's to say the Vulcans didn't select colonies with gravities and climate similar to the one on Vulcan?

[Granitehewer]

true but in choosing colonies and outposts, gravitational forces may not have been the priority as long as are within acceptable limits, as vulcans have been shown to tolerate lower gravities

[Praeothmin]

They can indeed tolerate smaller gravities, but I imagine that when you establish a colony, you do it for the long run, in the hope of develloping a long-lasting community, so you'll want worlds that closely resemble your home, at least in the most basic way...

They probably aren't all like Vulcan, but I would imagine most of them would be...

[Granitehewer]

the only one i remember was p'jem, and noone mentioned the gravity as far as i know

[Lazar]

If vulcans have their imposing physical strength due to the intricacies of the gravitational forces on their homeworld, would this be true of vulcans born on their colonies, with ancestors stemming back to the first pioneers on those worlds?

That's also a big question I have when people talk about humans colonizing Mars: some sci-fi authors have suggested that the humans there would become tall, frail and gracile, and unable to withstand Earth gravity. (Of course, Earth and Vulcan don't appear to be too different in terms of mass or gravity, because humans don't seem to have much trouble when they're on Vulcan.)

I'm assuming so as even if there were selection pressures favouring a lesser physique, surely it would take tens of thousands of years to occurm due to gestation periods etc.

But physique isn't all genetic - fetal development and environmental conditions would play an important role too.

Thus why is it assumed that the romulans don't have the vulcan super-strength, as even accounting for genetic drift and the founder effect, the timeframe is too short?

In STXI, at least, it appeared that the Romulans had Vulcan-like superhuman strength.

[SomosFuga]

I like to think vulcan strength and speed are result of their mental capabilities.

Some people theorize that when a person is subjected to extreme situations of great stress, anger, fear or somethin like that, could demonstrate to posses superhuman capabilities for short periods; so what happends with a person who is abble to control those and any other feelings at (and for) any given time? and it suppose vulcan feelings are even more intense than human feelings, so you could have a guy whit superhuman strength. Plus we don´t really know if vulcan superior strenght is a permanent state of being or something they manifest at will for relatively short periods of time.

I guees it could be a convination: the great mental development and discipline with the harsh enviroment.

About romulans, it is demonstrated they are very different from vulcans and they have never show super strength or speed, except for that scene in the new movie but i guees Ayel could be a really angry and strong guy.

[stitch626]

TBH, I always have seen Vulcan strength as a genetic feature. Same with the ears.

[Praeothmin]

About romulans, it is demonstrated they are very different from vulcans and they have never show super strength or speed, except for that scene in the new movie but i guees Ayel could be a really angry and strong guy.

Except that it has been stated in TOS that they are of Vulcan ancestry, and shere the same physiology.

And if we go only by what is shown, the Klingons aren't tough at all, and have human strength, except for Worf who's shown us a few times how much stronger then a human he was (especially on Risa when he picks up the human like the rommie did in ST XI).

It's been established in many series that Vulcans had superior strength to humans, and that they had Vulcan ancestors, so just because it was never clearly shown, doesn't mean it never existed, just like Worf's superior strength...

[Mikey]

As I've demonstrated though, there are a number of factors why the genetic component of Vulcan strength may have faded from the Romulan genome.

Of course, Earth and Vulcan don't appear to be too different in terms of mass or gravity, because humans don't seem to have much trouble when they're on Vulcan

Witness the ENT ep in which Archer became the reincarnation of Surak - as they trekked through the desert, T'pol made a comment about how the gravity and conditions would take a greater toll on a human than on a Vulcan.

[Sionnach Glic]

Took a greater toll over an extended time, yeah. But for the most part, Archer was able to move around without any problems, other than being very hot.

[Mikey]

Well, I never said that she claimed he would collapse like a pile of filings on a magnet.

Now, considering T'pol's appearance and Vulcan's reputed gravity, what the hell must her bras have been made of?

[Aaron]

Well, I never said that she claimed he would collapse like a pile of filings on a magnet.

Now, considering T'pol's appearance and Vulcan's reputed gravity, what the hell must her bras have been made of?

Clearly T'Pol had titanium reinforced implants...

[SomosFuga]

About romulans, it is demonstrated they are very different from vulcans and they have never show super strength or speed, except for that scene in the new movie but i guees Ayel could be a really angry and strong guy.

Except that it has been stated in TOS that they are of Vulcan ancestry, and shere the same physiology.

And if we go only by what is shown, the Klingons aren't tough at all, and have human strength, except for Worf who's shown us a few times how much stronger then a human he was (especially on Risa when he picks up the human like the rommie did in ST XI).

It's been established in many series that Vulcans had superior strength to humans, and that they had Vulcan ancestors, so just because it was never clearly shown, doesn't mean it never existed, just like Worf's superior strength...

Ok, romulans are of vulcan ancestry but they don´t share the exactly same physiology.
On TNG ep "The Enemy" Crusher sayd the only compatible donor for the romulan Patahk was Worf, a klingon, why not a vulcan crew member? acording to Memory Alpha there were vulcans on enterprise at the time of that ep (2366).

"Despite their common ancestry there were also many subtle internal physiological differences between Vulcans and Romulans. This was evidenced in Dr. Beverly Crusher's failed attempt to treat a Romulan, Patahk, who had suffered advanced synaptic breakdown, with the methods used to treat Vulcans." from Memory Alpha.

Another difference a can thik of now are the telepathic abilities, i don´t remember any romulan using telepathy.
Question: the romulans undergo pon far? don´t remember .

I am not saying romulans don´t have superior strength, i am just saying that we have never saw it or even heard of it, "clearly" or not.