Excelsior Class Discussion

[Captain Seafort]

The end of ST IV involved them boarding and sailing off in the E-A. The problems encountered in V were post-shakedown.

[Lazar]

And oddly, the ship seemed to deteriorate between movies. Anyway, considering the apparent quickness with which the crew was assigned to the ship at the end of STIV, I think it's clear that it was either a converted older ship, or a recently constructed vessel that happened to be available - but not something constructed from scratch just for Kirk.

One thing I liked was that STIV showed us our first (and only) glimpse of a TMP-style bridge with Okudagrams.

[Deepcrush]

Maybe it was a ship that they were already building. The last of her line. Throw a crew together and just send it off.

[kostmayer]

It think all the problems they were having in Star Trek V shows that the ship at least had a bunch of new systems as opposed to it being a direct copy of the old refit Enterprise.

Could it have been a test bed for new systems, using an old Constitution frame they had already built?

[Lazar]

Well the interiors seemed to undergo a radical change between STIV and STV. They put in a new bridge module, they did away with the open shuttle bay / cargo bay complex from TMP, and (in STVI) they replaced the TMP engineering set with a redress of the TNG set. That last one really bugs me: I know why they did it (they had already converted the TMP set into the TNG set, and they couldn't disrupt TNG by trying to reconstruct it), but the fact is that if you look at the Connie refit hull and you look at the TNG warp core, with the two EPS conduits going out to either side, there's just no way that the set would actually fit in the ship.

[Mikey]

All true. Perhaps it was an alternative prototype to the Excelsior project?

[Tsukiyumi]

All true. Perhaps it was an alternative prototype to the Excelsior project?

That's an interesting idea. Maybe they were examining the viability of upgrading the remaining Connies with Excelsior tech, and it just didn't work out.

[Deepcrush]

That would explain why SF was so quick to get rid of them. The Connies would be cut up to make Mirandas and the Excelsior would take over as the new Ship of the Line for SF.

[Praeothmin]

The extra space in the Connies saucer could be used to hold a secondary power source.

Could...
We have no proof it was...

The E-nil was also under crewed by cadets.

Except that the Command crew was comprised of some of the most experienced crew in Starfleet, and the Cadets weren't the ones making decisions...

[Aaron]

Exactly - that was a rhetorical question. It was basically built for sentimental reasons, not practical ones.

Or they were just running out the production line, not knowing how successful the Excelsior project would be.

[Nickswitz]

The E-nil was also under crewed by cadets.


Except that the Command crew was comprised of some of the most experienced crew in Starfleet, and the Cadets weren't the ones making decisions...

Yeah, So they didn't die, but it was still run by cadets that were on their first ship run ever.

Isn't it funny that the Constitution Class discussion became about the Excelsior, and the Excelsior class discussion became about the Constitution. :lol:

[Deepcrush]

Could...
We have no proof it was...

Yes, COULD, thats what the word is for. Seeing how we don't have proof that they didn't and its a simple but logical step.

Except that the Command crew was comprised of some of the most experienced crew in Starfleet, and the Cadets weren't the ones making decisions...

Nope, they were the ones running the ship. Under staffed and under trained and with zero experience. AKA, Cadets.

Or they were just running out the production line, not knowing how successful the Excelsior project would be.

If that was the case there should have been many more of them. As that would have required continued production past the STVI time table. Cost and time wise that just doesn't make sense.

Yeah, So they didn't die, but it was still run by cadets that were on their first ship run ever.

That speaks to the ship as well as crew. If a bunch of kids were able to survive a suprise attack then turn around win a head on battle.

Isn't it funny that the Constitution Class discussion became about the Excelsior, and the Excelsior class discussion became about the Constitution.

You can't talk about the Connie without talking about the Excelsior, the ship that would replace it and why.
You can't talk about the Excelsior without talking about the Connie, the ship that ended up replacing it and why.

[Praeothmin]

Seeing how we don't have proof that they didn't and its a simple but logical step

No, it isn't, because we have not seen any indication of the superiority of the Constitution when compared to the Miranda.
We have no clear indication that the Constitution-class is more powerful, so the word could only shows a probability, not a fact, or even a logical step.

Nope, they were the ones running the ship. Under staffed and under trained and with zero experience. AKA, Cadets.

Nope!
Once the Enterprise was sent out to Regula-1 to investigate, command of the ship was put in Kirk's hands, with Scotty running Engineering, MvKoy in sickbay, and Spock, Sulu, Uhura helping Kirk on the bridge.
The decision makers were all experienced officers, and only because of the plausability of the Reliant's supposed comm problems was Kirk hesitant to raise shields.

But, to get back on track, the Excelsior is the best looking ship of the Federation, bar none.
Yes, even when compared to the Sovereign and Defiant...

[Deepcrush]

No, it isn't, because we have not seen any indication of the superiority of the Constitution when compared to the Miranda. We have no clear indication that the Constitution-class is more powerful, so the word could only shows a probability, not a fact, or even a logical step.

Do you have anything to prove that they couldn't do this or are you just blowing smoke? The Saucer has the space and ability to support a warp core then it should be able to support an extra power supply. Makes sense that if they can and should then they might just do it.

Ability + Need = Logic.

Nope!
Once the Enterprise was sent out to Regula-1 to investigate, command of the ship was put in Kirk's hands, with Scotty running Engineering, MvKoy in sickbay, and Spock, Sulu, Uhura helping Kirk on the bridge.
The decision makers were all experienced officers, and only because of the plausability of the Reliant's supposed comm problems was Kirk hesitant to raise shields.

Whats so hard for you? Experienced command, not experienced crew. If there are 5 trained crew and 450 none trained crew. Take a WILD guess on which would have a greater effect on the ships running... (cue Jepordy Music) Being in charge of a ship and being the ones controlling it are two different things.

Also the E-nil didn't have its shields up which was an aid in the Reliant's SUPRISE ATTACK. Just to help you with this thing called thinking... A suprise attack is where you attack someone and suprise them.

But, to get back on track, the Excelsior is the best looking ship of the Federation, bar none.

I've been saying this all along.

Yes, even when compared to the Sovereign and Defiant...

The Sov is a nice looking ship but the Defiant looks like crap. Though the Defiant is more function over form.

[Captain Seafort]

Nope, they were the ones running the ship. Under staffed and under trained and with zero experience. AKA, Cadets.

Nope!
Once the Enterprise was sent out to Regula-1 to investigate, command of the ship was put in Kirk's hands, with Scotty running Engineering, MvKoy in sickbay, and Spock, Sulu, Uhura helping Kirk on the bridge.
The decision makers were all experienced officers, and only because of the plausability of the Reliant's supposed comm problems was Kirk hesitant to raise shields.

The decision makers were all experienced officers, but the ship itself was crewed by cadets - weapons control, PT loading bays, engineering and damage control were all in the hands of cadets. Against Khan they were able to get away with it because his crew, for all their intelligence and quickness to saok up information, were learning on the job, based on a quick browse through the operator's manuals.

Regarding the more general Connie vs. Miranda argument, the problem with the Connies was probably due to their age - the E-nil was forty years old by the time we first saw a Miranda. The Connies were at the end of a long life and had run out of development room. The Mirandas were at the start of that cycle.

As for the E-A, she'd just been badly knocked about by Chang. Given that the Connies were being phased out anyway it probably wasn't worth the cost of refitting her just for a few more years of service.

But, to get back on track, the Excelsior is the best looking ship of the Federation, bar none.
Yes, even when compared to the Sovereign and Defiant...

Rot - the refit Connie is, for all their flaws.