GCS Vs 12" Cannons

[Captain Seafort]

Very well, prove what the "intent" of those responsible for the episode was.

[Captain Seafort]

Kendall....

Thats about right!

Seconded, alhough I think this is slightly more accurate.

[Aaron]

Kendall....

Thats about right!

Seemed quite fitting.

I'm now taking bets whether m52nickerson will ignore the advice I gave him in favour of plugging his crusade.

[Aaron]

Seconded, alhough I think this is slightly more accurate.

Stealing that for next time.

[m52nickerson]

Very well, prove what the "intent" of those responsible for the episode was.

Pretty obvious that the intent was to make the Husnock ship seem very powerful, not to make the E-D shields look weaker then WW2 armor. Then again they might have wanted to throw out what had been established about the GCS shields just for the hell of it.

I'm now taking bets whether m52nickerson will ignore the advice I gave him in favour of plugging his crusade.

Safe bet!

[Deepcrush]

Pretty obvious that the intent was to make the Husnock ship seem very powerful, not to make the E-D shields look weaker then WW2 armor. Then again they might have wanted to throw out what had been established about the GCS shields just for the hell of it.

Then you're saying Seafort was right. Easy enough.

[m52nickerson]

Pretty obvious that the intent was to make the Husnock ship seem very powerful, not to make the E-D shields look weaker then WW2 armor. Then again they might have wanted to throw out what had been established about the GCS shields just for the hell of it.

Then you're saying Seafort was right. Easy enough.

.....and the Ferengi are now selling naval guns to the Romulans!

(that was sarcasm also)

[Deepcrush]

He gave you evidence and you gave.... "blank"

So either you're saying he is right or you can't admit that he's right. Either way, he's still right.

[m52nickerson]

He gave you evidence and you gave.... "blank"

So either you're saying he is right or you can't admit that he's right. Either way, he's still right.

He is right about what was stated, and the math that goes with it. That does not make the argument that WW2 naval guns could take down the shields of a GCS any less inane.

[Deepcrush]

Fine, tell us why.

[mlsnoopy]

Don't try and pull that tactic.

That basicly means that it had none.

Wrong, idiot, it means that we don't know. It might have been unarmed. It might also have had a canon capable of one-shoting shuttles.

No evidence of any kind of weapon. He is welcome to prove otherwise but basicly my response is correct.

Againe with the name calling. I see you have no real argument.

When he has no real argument he starts with personal attacks.

Of course my esponse would be diffrent if he would left out the first part.

[Captain Seafort]

No evidence of any kind of weapon. He is welcome to prove otherwise but basicly my response is correct.

Certainly, under the Razor the assumption is that unless we see evidence of the Cardie APC being armed, we do not assume that it does, and anyone who tries to assemble an argument based on the APC's armament would be in violation of the Razor. This does not, however, amount to proof that the vehicle is unarmed.

When he has no real argument he starts with personal attacks.

Wrong. When someone's being a fucking idiot, I call a spade a spade. I may not have a short a fuse as Deep, but that doesn't mean I'm about to mollycoddle someone who continues being obtuse after the facts have been explained to them.

Of course my esponse would be diffrent if he would left out the first part.

Grow a thicker skin you contemptable waste of bandwidth.

[Atekimogus]

The Allies had a stage ground, DS9 for ship repair and the Bajor Moons for supplies and hospitals. The Romulans even asked for one of their own! Add to the rest of the crap you guys have been throwing about like "They just attacked Cardassia Prime and left everything else alone". AHFUCKYOU! The UFP and KDF were mounting ground invasions all over the place. Including where Martok lead the attack against the CU 11th order. Half a million cardis defending a single ground location. They didn't skip to Cardassia Prime, its just all that was left. The founder even ordered all of the Dominion's surviving forces to fall back to Cardassia Prime.

Prove it? Iirc all we hear or see about is the Chin'toka system and the planet hold by the 11th order you mentioned. Are you implying that the CU only had two major systems within their borders? (quite possible, I do not know for sure, maybe has some better data).

The final battle against the dominion started at the border of the CU implying that there was a great deal left of the CU at this point. Also the founder pulled only back to cardassia prime after the cardassian fleet turned on the dominion. Since the battle turned unfavourable for the dominion at that point, falling back to their most well defended system and leaving the rest more or less unprotected is hardly surprising. That does NOT, repeat NOT mean that there wasn't anything left anywhere in the CU!

As for the allies having a staging ground with DS9 and Bajor: that is absolutely true but is was within allied controlled space. We were talking about planets held by the enemy for further use as staging area as soon as conquered. Bajor was never conquered or even enemy territory, DS9 was reconquered without ground combat and you people explecitly told my how ridicoulos it is comparing DS9 to a planet .

Now look, before you are getting unfriendly again, I completely agree with you that the chances are that there where massive ground battles etc and the oou reason is that they just hadn't the time/money to show us this battles but no matter how much sense they would make, fact is unfortunatly that we hardly hear about and even harder see those battles. So please do not take it so personal when someone trys to explain this plot wholes away.

[Deepcrush]

No evidence of any kind of weapon. He is welcome to prove otherwise but basicly my response is correct.

How so? Most APCs are in fact armed in one form or another. Its a safer to say it has a weapon but we just don't know what kind.

Certainly, under the Razor the assumption is that unless we see evidence of the Cardie APC being armed, we do not assume that it does, and anyone who tries to assemble an argument based on the APC's armament would be in violation of the Razor. This does not, however, amount to proof that the vehicle is unarmed.

Just noticed this but I think its already been covered by what I just said.

When he has no real argument he starts with personal attacks.

Wrong. When someone's being a f***ing idiot, I call a spade a spade. I may not have as short a fuse as Deep, but that doesn't mean I'm about to mollycoddle someone who continues being obtuse after the facts have been explained to them.

Name calling is just a point of extent. If you're being stupid then everyone has the right to call you so. You should be happy he's willing to cover the same topic more then once. Far better then me, I don't like to repeat myself. Besides, you can't use the "Insults = no real argument". Seafort was the master of that little game back when I joined. "Don't fuck with the Jedi master son" -Jay and Silent Bob strike back-

Grow a thicker skin you contemptable waste of bandwidth.

I think Seafort is forgetting his place so here's a reminder.

Deepcrush is angry hate filled who wants to beat stupid people bloody "I hate you" guy...
Seafort is the ego filled posh british "im better then you" guy...

[Captain Seafort]

Prove it? Iirc all we hear or see about is the Chin'toka system and the planet hold by the 11th order you mentioned. Are you implying that the CU only had two major systems within their borders? (quite possible, I do not know for sure, maybe has some better data).

Maybe (indeed, almost certainly) not overall, but regarding systems between the border and Cardassia Prime it's a different issue - don't forget that the Cardassian and Bajoran systems are extremely close together - close enough that you can travel between the two in days at most, and Sisko could cross the distance in a sail ship (indeed, he stated that a trip to Cardassia would take "years", not "centuries" or "a lifetime", suggesting that the journey may even be achieveable at impulse speeds.)

Also, it isn't just the Dominion War we're using as evidence - there's also Organia (described as strategically important in "Errand of Mercy"), and Nelvana III (described as putting the Romulans within striking range of several Federation sectors in "The Defector") to name but two.