Galaxy Class Capability

[Kevsha]

Go ahead and bring it back.

Wile were at it, i think i'll go bring sexy back.

[Deepcrush]

[Deepcrush]

Maybe they fired more than once but then you end up with the best ship of the fleet not beeing able to disable one small 80 year old bird of prey.

Without shields all the the E-D's systems were exposed, with a few suprise shot the B0P could have disabled several weapons on the E-D. we have seen throughout Star Trek that a ship that has lost its shields is incredibly vulnerable. every shop from the BoP is infliting a great deal of damage and the E-D is causing no damage in return. imagine you are in a gunfight withsomeone. your oponent is using a little .22 pistol and you have a .45 but the other guy gets to shoot you first and you have to unload a clip and a half into him before you start to hurt him.

having a larger ship or more ships may have been a more dignified way of seeing the E-D go. but its not entirely unbeleavable that the BoP took her down.

Its total bullshit that the BoP took them down. Two or three shots from the E-D would have blown the BoP to dust. The fact that the E-D couldn't be bothered to return fire just makes me hate the UFP more!

[Atekimogus]

Its total bullshit that the BoP took them down. Two or three shots from the E-D would have blown the BoP to dust. The fact that the E-D couldn't be bothered to return fire just makes me hate the UFP more!

I tend to agree with Deepcrush here. I am even of the opinion that the E-D shouldn't even need two to three shots to completly blast an aging BoP into oblivion. (Considering the damage we see they are able to dish out with their main phasers on other occasions)

I do not hate the UFP tough, I only hate incompetent writers and producers who give a damn .


@Rochey, yes rolling up something a few pages past will probably help to get ontopic again and I will keep an eye open for your response 8)

[m52nickerson]

And once again, the topic has veered off towards yet another tangent.

@M52 and Artek':
Do you want me to go back and reply to your points, or shall we just let it lie now that it's been burried for two pages?

Up to you, I'm not going to try and claim that you conceded if you don't.

I tend to agree with Deepcrush here. I am even of the opinion that the E-D shouldn't even need two to three shots to completly blast an aging BoP into oblivion. (Considering the damage we see they are able to dish out with their main phasers on other occasions)

I do not hate the UFP tough, I only hate incompetent writers and producers who give a damn .

One time a ship will be utterly destroyed by one phaser hit, another time a ship will survive a brutal pounding a still warp away. Consistency is just not there.

[Kevsha]

Its total bullshit that the BoP took them down. Two or three shots from the E-D would have blown the BoP to dust.

how so? the klingon ship had its shields up. even a small vessel with minimal hull strength can survive several volleys from a larger ship. the BoP had the advantage, they could have diverted power to the shields to keep them up. really the E-D did return fire, the fact that we may not have seen more shots doesn't mean that they weren't fired.

really it makes sense. with no shields a ship has no protection at all think back to ST:II the E-nil could get off a few shots but not enough to effect thier shields. but with thier shields down they inflicted devistating damage with a short burst.

i think its amaizing that the E-D didn't show alot more damage

If it were compated to the E-D's battle with the 3 K'vort class ships in yesterdays enterprise, the E-D could have been a very different ship in that episode...

again i think that an unshielded ship has no chance against a shielded target. especially a warship, even if its an older design.

[Deepcrush]

how so? the klingon ship had its shields up. even a small vessel with minimal hull strength can survive several volleys from a larger ship. the BoP had the advantage, they could have diverted power to the shields to keep them up. really the E-D did return fire, the fact that we may not have seen more shots doesn't mean that they weren't fired.

Phaser fire from a GCS took out a BoP of far greater size and power in three shots in YE-TNG. So even down cutting the power of the E-D, you're still fighting a far smaller BoP model. So it stays about even. The E-D survived a pretty good number of hits but only should have needed three to destroy the BoP.

really it makes sense. with no shields a ship has no protection at all think back to ST:II the E-nil could get off a few shots but not enough to effect thier shields. but with thier shields down they inflicted devistating damage with a short burst.

Poor example seeing that the Same BoP model from STIII now faced the UFPs best ship of the line in STVII some 80 years later.

i think its amaizing that the E-D didn't show alot more damage

Budget but still the bridge looked like it took one hell of a beating.

If it were compated to the E-D's battle with the 3 K'vort class ships in yesterdays enterprise, the E-D could have been a very different ship in that episode...

E-D may have been different vs 3 BoPs that were different. Yet the E-D still took one out with only a few shots dispite having to take the fire of all three.

again i think that an unshielded ship has no chance against a shielded target. especially a warship, even if its an older design.

DS9
Defiant survived against two BoP's and a Vor'Cha for several minutes unshielded as it transported survivors from a Galor class ship carrying Dukat and the Dutopa council.

[Atekimogus]

how so? the klingon ship had its shields up. even a small vessel with minimal hull strength can survive several volleys from a larger ship. the BoP had the advantage, they could have diverted power to the shields to keep them up. really the E-D did return fire, the fact that we may not have seen more shots doesn't mean that they weren't fired.

Phaser fire from a GCS took out a BoP of far greater size and power in three shots in YE-TNG. So even down cutting the power of the E-D, you're still fighting a far smaller BoP model. So it stays about even. The E-D survived a pretty good number of hits but only should have needed three to destroy the BoP.

To emphasise Deepcrush' point the BoP model from YE-TNG is even speculated to be a bigger ship than the small BoP. It is referenced as battle cruiser not escort iirc.

[Kevsha]

Phaser fire from a GCS took out a BoP of far greater size and power in three shots in YE-TNG. So even down cutting the power of the E-D, you're still fighting a far smaller BoP model. So it stays about even. The E-D survived a pretty good number of hits but only should have needed three to destroy the BoP.

again, different time line, different ships. also the E-D was fully shielded, and after it lost its shields it didn't last too long.

DS9
Defiant survived against two BoP's and a Vor'Cha for several minutes unshielded as it transported survivors from a Galor class ship carrying Dukat and the Dutopa council.

the galaxy class lacks the ablative armour that protects the defiant. defiant was also a newer design made specificaly for combat the GCS was not.

that and the defiant was a magical ship that could do anything


in the star trek universe it seems that 99% of a ships survivabilty in combat are its shields save for the borg. in the ST:6 a torpedo on an unshielded E-A blows a hole through the saucer section. in the dominion war unshielded ships are sliced uo like a warm knofe through butter. obviously the advent of ablative armor changed this alot but ships produced wothout it (the gcs and older ships) depend on thier shields very much to remain combat effective. being able to inflict major damage to crucial components in the opening shots of the battle seems like a game changer to me

[Atekimogus]

DS9
Defiant survived against two BoP's and a Vor'Cha for several minutes unshielded as it transported survivors from a Galor class ship carrying Dukat and the Dutopa council.

the galaxy class lacks the ablative armour that protects the defiant. defiant was also a newer design made specificaly for combat the GCS was not.

that and the defiant was a magical ship that could do anything

I am not sure what happened first, the battle against the two Bops/Vorcha or the battle against the USS Lakota but during the fight against the Lakota it is mentioned that the defiant got refitted with ablative armour without reporting it to starfleet. If the battle against the two BoP/Vorchas happened at an earlier date may it be possible that the defiant was without this refit at this point?

But I do agree on the magical ship thing !

[kostmayer]

The battle with the Klingon ships was (I think) at an earlier date, but I'm sure Dax says something about the Defiant not lasting long with the shields down, even with the ablative armour.

And the Defiant could change size, become invisibe, and grap bigger ships by the nose and drag them round. She was very magical.

[Captain Seafort]

again, different time line, different ships.

Different ships that were externally indistiguishable, the "battleship" still had whale tanks, and the had the same unreliable warp core.

also the E-D was fully shielded, and after it lost its shields it didn't last too long.

She was lost thanks to the dodgy warp core the original GCS had - she suffered a coolant leak, couldn't eject the core, and the result was a core breach. You'd have thought a ship built from base principles as a battleship would have a more reliable power system.

the galaxy class lacks the ablative armour that protects the defiant. defiant was also a newer design made specificaly for combat the GCS was not.

All true, but countered by the fact that the Defiant was up against far more powerful opponents, and that the GCS is an inherently stronger design thanks to being far larger.

[m52nickerson]

Different ships that were externally indistiguishable, the "battleship" still had whale tanks, and the had the same unreliable warp core.

....and as stated quite possibly more powerful weapons. Do you really think the bridge was the only thing different?

She was lost thanks to the dodgy warp core the original GCS had - she suffered a coolant leak, couldn't eject the core, and the result was a core breach. You'd have thought a ship built from base principles as a battleship would have a more reliable power system.

The hood was lost due to a poor armor design, she suffered a hit to that penetrated the magazine, could not contain the fire and the resulting explosion destroyed the ship.

All true, but countered by the fact that the Defiant was up against far more powerful opponents, and that the GCS is an inherently stronger design thanks to being far larger.

We don't know if they were more powerful since we don't know the power of the alternate reality Klingon ships. Larger does not indicate stronger.

[Captain Seafort]

....and as stated quite possibly more powerful weapons. Do you really think the bridge was the only thing different?

Very well, if you believe the YE E-D's weapons were strong then prove it.

The hood was lost due to a poor armor design, she suffered a hit to that penetrated the magazine, could not contain the fire and the resulting explosion destroyed the ship.

To nitpick, Hood wasn't destroyed by an explosion, but by rapid burning of her cordite suuplies, but that's essentiall correct. If the E-D had been destroyed (on any occassion) by a direct hit to a torp magazine of AM pod then I wouldn't have a problem with it. Losing the ship to a badly designed reactor is in no way analogus.

We don't know if they were more powerful since we don't know the power of the alternate reality Klingon ships.

Again, prove it.

Larger does not indicate stronger.

Yes it does. The deckhead of the Defiant's engine room was within a few metres of the outer hull. The E-D's engine room was at least dozens of metres from the outer hull. Therefore it is inherently far better protected. Moreover the stresses on a ship's hull increase as its mass increases. Therefore the E-D's hull must be capable of withstanding higher stresses than the Defiant's.

[m52nickerson]

Very well, if you believe the YE E-D's weapons were strong then prove it.

What we see in the episode points to the YE E-D's weapons being more powerful.

To nitpick, Hood wasn't destroyed by an explosion, but by rapid burning of her cordite suuplies, but that's essentiall correct. If the E-D had been destroyed (on any occassion) by a direct hit to a torp magazine of AM pod then I wouldn't have a problem with it. Losing the ship to a badly designed reactor is in no way analogus.

Yes it is, as fare as both suffered from the failure of multiply safeguards and were destroyed.

Again, prove it.

We see in multiple other episodes that Klingon ships can take a good amount of damage. In a time line which the Klingon had been at war for 80 years it is ridiculous to think that those ships were weaker the the ships found in the normal time line. That again supports that idea that the Enterprises weapons were more powerful.

Yes it does. The deckhead of the Defiant's engine room was within a few metres of the outer hull. The E-D's engine room was at least dozens of metres from the outer hull. Therefore it is inherently far better protected. Moreover the stresses on a ship's hull increase as its mass increases. Therefore the E-D's hull must be capable of withstanding higher stresses than the Defiant's.

....and a smaller ship can afford to mount more armor and a denser thicker hull because it does not have those extra stresses from size. Plus we know that the Defiant had better armor then the Enterprise when it was destroyed.