Sovereign class

Post by **Mikey** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:41 pm

If they did that, then they would have a starship which was excellent at one thing instead of mediocre at many things - we couldn't have that, now could we?

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:42 pm

Exactly, we can't have Starfleet getting smart now, can we?

Captain Peabody · Post by **Captain Peabody** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:46 pm

In-universe the entire Galaxy-class design was badly thought out.

I think that's the only thing we all agree on.

*Ahem* Actually, I've always thought the Galaxy was one of the better Trek designs, at least in-universe; for one thing, its extremely versatile. It has the speed and size to go on extremely long exploration missions, and the firepower to deal with any threats along the way. In addition, in the Dominion War episodes, it also seems to basically be able to kick butt with relative ease (the ten-second K.O. of the Galor in Sacrifice of Angels has to be one of my all-time favorite moments).

So...what's the problem? *Waits for angry, pitchfork-wielding mob*

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:52 pm

for one thing, its extremely versatile.

That's one problem. By making it moderately good at everything, it will fail in all respects to a ship dedicated to whatever task it is performing.
Jack-of-all-trade ships don't work. There's a reason we don't have them now.

It has the speed and size to go on extremely long exploration missions, and the firepower to deal with any threats along the way.

And the cost of this speed and firepower means several other areas need to be knocked down in effeciency.

In addition, in the Dominion War episodes, it also seems to basically be able to kick butt with relative ease

Considering its one of Starfleet's heaviest warships, I'd be very surprised if it couldn't.

(the ten-second K.O. of the Galor in Sacrifice of Angels has to be one of my all-time favorite moments).

Yeah, that was quite a cool scene.

So...what's the problem?

Oh boy, now you just opened the can of worms.

I'll just repeat what I said in the Galaxy thread.

I wrote: Now, the Galaxy class...

Simply, I hate it. Every little part of it. From the idioticaly exposed nacelles, to the powder keg warpcore, to the exposed bridge, to the ridiculously ugly shape, to the hotel sized quarters, to the carpeted halls, to the overused Jeffries tubes, to the aparantly fire-wall less computers, to the lack of redundancy, to the over reliance on active systems, to the living room bridge, to...I'll stop, shall I?

Believe me, that's not all of my problems with it.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:53 pm

*hoists pitchfork*

The "versatility" you mention is its biggest flaw - it's a jack of all trades and master of none, with a warp core that explodes if you so much as look at it funny and crammed with civilians despite being the Federation's most powerful warship.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:04 pm

Yeah, pretty much what I said. But much shorter.

Captain Peabody · Post by **Captain Peabody** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:07 pm

Okay, I see I've hit something of a nerve here....

That's one problem. By making it moderately good at everything, it will fail in all respects to a ship dedicated to whatever task it is performing.

Maybe that's what you'd expect, but in TNG it seems to be able to stand toe-to-toe with basically every enemy warship, including the Romulan D'Deridex class...which really doesn't make all that much sense. In addition, in order to be an effective explorer, wouldn't you also have to be a jack-of-all trades, at least to some degree?
Ah, you're probably right... I guess I have something of a soft spot for the old Galaxy, powder-keg warp core and all...

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:14 pm

Maybe that's what you'd expect, but in TNG it seems to be able to stand toe-to-toe with basically every enemy warship, including the Romulan D'Deridex class

So? All this proves it that it's either a combat orientated vessel, or that Starfleet ships are more advanced than their alien counterparts.

In addition, in order to be an effective explorer, wouldn't you also have to be a jack-of-all trades, at least to some degree?

Er, no.

The only thing an explorer needs is engines, science labs, and crew quarters.

Captain Peabody · Post by **Captain Peabody** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:19 pm

Er, no.
The only thing an explorer needs is engines, science labs, and crew quarters.

Well, I'm pretty sure that the many misadventures of both Enterprises prove that a good phaser array is also rather necessary...

Seriously, though; wouldn't you agree that when you're exploring an area where you could encounter a hostile alien race at any time, you'd need fairly good weapons systems as well?

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:35 pm

No - you need either a good engine to GTFO, a real warship nearby to ward off attackers, or a big white flag.

Post by **Mikey** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:39 pm

And plenty of spare skivvies...

Blackstar the Chakat · Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:51 pm

All starfleet ships have combat and science abilities. Even the Defiant was used in the occasional science mission, however most ships have a clear oriantation. Novas and Oberths are clearly science vessels, while Akiras, Defiants and Soverigns are clearly combat oriented. The Galaxy seems to be too lightly armed to be a battleship, or even a warship IMO. And even with this 'balance' of abilities it isn't good to but all your eggs in one basket. One ship might be able to do the jobs of two or three different classes but if that one ship is destroyed you lose all those abilities with one blow.

kostmayer · Post by **kostmayer** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:22 pm

I always saw the Enterprise D as an explorer/science vessel, with excellent diplomatic facilities. Theres no reason a ship can't fulfil all those roles imo, but if the ship has to be geared towards heavy combat too then thats were problems start. A Galaxy class ship could be twice as powerful if it had crew quarters of a sensible size, and more space given over to phaser banks and torpedo bays.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:10 pm

Blackstar wrote:The Galaxy seems to be too lightly armed to be a battleship, or even a warship IMO.

How do you figure that? It clearly has an impressive armament, and is more than able to take on dedicated enemy warships.
Also, lets not forget that episode where the crew lost their memory, and concluded by looking at the armaments that they were a battleship. So it would seem that they are heavily armed.

And even with this 'balance' of abilities it isn't good to but all your eggs in one basket.

That's why you have more than one ship working together. Modern ships rarely work on their own, there will be a group of diferent ship that use their combined, but different, abilities to best effect.

One ship might be able to do the jobs of two or three different classes but if that one ship is destroyed you lose all those abilities with one blow.

No, you lose all your combat abilities, not all you other abilities.
And keep in mind, it would probably take two or three jack of all trades to take down one dedicated warship of equal tonneage. Seems like a fair trade off to me.

Kostmayer wrote:I always saw the Enterprise D as an explorer/science vessel, with excellent diplomatic facilities.

That's what it should be, but it isn't used as a dedicated science/exploratory vessel.

A Galaxy class ship could be twice as powerful if it had crew quarters of a sensible size, and more space given over to phaser banks and torpedo bays.

I agree, the Galaxy class is innefeciency personified.

Post by **Teaos** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:39 am

By making it moderately good at everything

But its not. It is VERY good at everything. It has the best science faciliteties the best diplomatic capabilites the best fire power. Starfleet is good enough to pull off a jack of all trade ships and not make it ok at all of them but the best.