Why does everyone love the original TOS Enterprise so much?

[Tsukiyumi]

Well the original Connie could separate, the problem would come when they wanted to reconnect.
As for the Sov, that bothers me. Imagine how weird the engineering hull would look.

No need to imagine:


EDIT: OK, that should do it. Not sure how to use flickr though, maybe there's a better way to link it?

Lovely IMO.

That's actually way cooler looking than I expected.

[LaughingCheese]

Well the original Connie could separate, the problem would come when they wanted to reconnect.
As for the Sov, that bothers me. Imagine how weird the engineering hull would look.

No need to imagine:


EDIT: OK, that should do it. Not sure how to use flickr though, maybe there's a better way to link it?

Lovely IMO.

That's actually way cooler looking than I expected.

Indeed it is.

[Captain Seafort]

If a saucer seperated and was able to function completely seperately (even for a limited time) it would open up all sorts of new possiblites in several different dimensions.

It can function on it's own. Not as a true starship of course, but in cases such as Generations using the saucer as an evacuation vehicle is greatly preferable to abandoning ship in shuttles and lifeboats. It's got far better life support, supplies storage and medical facilities, and can put up a fight if any unpleasant characters show up before any rescue part does.

[Tsukiyumi]

Yeah, I imagine you could wait quite a while for rescue in a Galaxy saucer as opposed to the escape pods. The saucer alone would be a match for a lot of ships, I imagine.

[Sionnach Glic]

The problem with that is that you're now housing your crew on a legitimate military target, which gives anyone a license to kill everyone on board.

[Aaron]

The problem with that is that you're now housing your crew on a legitimate military target, which gives anyone a license to kill everyone on board.

I wouldn't go as far as that. I personally consider the saucer on it's own to be little more than an armed transport. It has no warp drive to power it's phasers, so now there running off either batteries or the fusion reactors and it's only got one aft tube. No warp drive so it's no threat to anything outside the system. A switched on enemy could literally starve them out if they don't feel like confronting them.

[Sionnach Glic]

Quite true. Point conceded.

[Graham Kennedy]

A Galaxy saucer is nothing to be sneezed at, to be sure. Bear in mind that a Galaxy class is over two and a half times the size of a Sovereign... so the saucer alone is probably about the size of an entire Sovereign class. If the designers were at all sensible (no jokes please) then the saucer surely has all the recycling systems and such that it needs. So with fusion powerplants there's no reason it couldn't supply food, water air and other commodities for years at a time if needed.

The two big phaser arrays are there, along with a photon launcher if the TNG TM is to be believed. Nothing to be sneezed at, IF the impulse engines can provide enough juice to power them (and is there an antimatter store aboard for that photon launcher? You'd think there must be, or else what's the point of it.) It's big downside is the lack of warp manouverability; an enemy could do hit and run tactics, much as we saw the D7 do to the Enterprise in Elaan of Troyius. And indeed Wesley called the saucer "a sitting duck" against the Borg in BoBW2, which I rather thought was to do with it's inability to run away. With impulse engines it's not terribly viable beyond one system, though I actually can imagine a GCS saucer doing a 25% c run to another star system over 20 years or so... but even within one system, it's essentially a small mobile starbase.

I'd feel pretty safe and comfy if I were "stranded" in a GCS saucer. Hell, stick even a modest warp capability into it and I'd be happy to serve in it as a regular part of the fleet!

[Mikey]

Um... wouldn't that separation go right through the captain's yacht?

[LaughingCheese]

Um... wouldn't that separation go right through the captain's yacht?

No, if I recall, the yacht is on the underside of the quantum torpedo turret, which, as you can see from the drawing, separates with the secondary hull.

So no.


Also, in defense of smaller starships, the Galaxy class were designed as explorers. The Sovereign class are more capable combat starships. You don't want as many families on a warship as you would have on an explorer.

That's one point. Another is, we still have the laws of physics to worry about, even in Trek. Even with a warp field bubble lowering the mass of the vessel to make it more maneuverable so that the RCS/Impulse can work more effectively, if you scale a new class up 30%-50% the size of a GCS, does that mean you have to scale whatever creates the warp field and add more power generators?

My point is, it seems there comes a point were a limiting factor is reached in terms of maneuverability. Borg cubes are ginormous, but not at all maneuverable. And neither are starbases.

Is it more important that Starfleet's flagship simply be ginormous or is it more important for it to be maneuverable? I don't see how you can have both.

The Sov already has plenty of firepower, and is plenty maneuverable. So, maybe they did good making it smaller.

[Mikey]

I really don't mind the decrease in size either, especially considering the lack of hotel facilities compared with the E-D. But how can the yacht be attached to the turret? Yachts aren't flexible, but turrets by definition rotate.

[LaughingCheese]

I really don't mind the decrease in size either, especially considering the lack of hotel facilities compared with the E-D. But how can the yacht be attached to the turret? Yachts aren't flexible, but turrets by definition rotate.

But the thing is its not a true turret. I mean have we ever seen it rotate?

It take the place of the neck tubes on the GCS since the neck is eliminated on the Sov. I'd have to watch Insurrection again, but I'm pretty sure there's room for a small hanger/airlock on the underside of that thing, and just above would be the q torp bay.

[kostmayer]

Not sure, but if that knobbly thing on the nose of the Stardrive section is the turret you're reffering to, I think the Yaucht is further back along the nose.

[LaughingCheese]

This is the turret I was referring to:



But that's a good question; where exactly IS the yacht?!

[Graham Kennedy]

Also, in defense of smaller starships, the Galaxy class were designed as explorers. The Sovereign class are more capable combat starships. You don't want as many families on a warship as you would have on an explorer.

That's one point. Another is, we still have the laws of physics to worry about, even in Trek. Even with a warp field bubble lowering the mass of the vessel to make it more maneuverable so that the RCS/Impulse can work more effectively, if you scale a new class up 30%-50% the size of a GCS, does that mean you have to scale whatever creates the warp field and add more power generators?

My point is, it seems there comes a point were a limiting factor is reached in terms of maneuverability. Borg cubes are ginormous, but not at all maneuverable. And neither are starbases.

Is it more important that Starfleet's flagship simply be ginormous or is it more important for it to be maneuverable? I don't see how you can have both.

The Sov already has plenty of firepower, and is plenty maneuverable. So, maybe they did good making it smaller.

Well for one, you can overcome the larger size and mass by simply having larger more powerful engines. It's not mass that dictates maneuverability as such, but rather the thrust:mass ratio and how rapidly it the thrust can be changed and vectored.

Also, you have to question how much of a factor is maneuverability is anyway for a big ship. Of course having a ship that can only go in straight lines is absurd, but at the same time these are not fighters. Trek weapons are pretty damn accurate, and a big ship is pretty much going to hit another big ship most of the time regardless of their agility rating. I'd gladly take a ship with twice the mass and so twice the firepower and shielding, it if meant it was half as agile.

But really I am not talking about how the in-universe physics does or should work. In my mind, the Enterprise should always be the biggest, fastest, strongest ship in the fleet. It's a matter of pride!