Scimitar vs. Sovereign

[m52nickerson]

I'm with Graham.

And, I see my points are being ignored. That's fine.

I was not ignoring you, I would like you input in tying to tie the script and the visuals together.

[Aaron]

This could be, but they did come up with the radiation weapon. Not saying that they are aces when it come to ship to ship combat but I would give them slightly more credit.

There's a difference between designing and building a WMD and having space combat experiance. Mind you this is Trek, where one guy can apparently be qualified to work in four or five trades without any loss of skill.

Possibly, but it could also be that the torpedoes move faster than the smaller ships.

Wait...what? A CIWS is supposed to shoot down small craft and missiles. What the hell would be the point of having one that can't shoot down missiles, you could just use the main batteries ala the E-D in that episode with the Lisians (or whatever one it was, they re-used the Edo god).

[m52nickerson]

There's a difference between designing and building a WMD and having space combat experiance. Mind you this is Trek, where one guy can apparently be qualified to work in four or five trades without any loss of skill.

Very true.

Wait...what? A CIWS is supposed to shoot down small craft and missiles. What the hell would be the point of having one that can't shoot down missiles, you could just use the main batteries ala the E-D in that episode with the Lisians (or whatever one it was, they re-used the Edo god).

I think the missile was similar to what we have now, so not nearly as fast as a photon torpedo. Plus becasue of the cloak we don't see a lot of the torpedoes hitting the Scimitar so powering up all those diruptors man have more of a detriment then adding that extra power to the shields.

[Aaron]

I think the missile was similar to what we have now, so not nearly as fast as a photon torpedo. Plus becasue of the cloak we don't see a lot of the torpedoes hitting the Scimitar so powering up all those diruptors man have more of a detriment then adding that extra power to the shields.

I'm not going to get into a torpedo speed debate, that's been done before. However think of the impact on morale if the Scimitar was swatting all the E-E's torpedoes down.

[m52nickerson]

I think the missile was similar to what we have now, so not nearly as fast as a photon torpedo. Plus becasue of the cloak we don't see a lot of the torpedoes hitting the Scimitar so powering up all those diruptors man have more of a detriment then adding that extra power to the shields.

I'm not going to get into a torpedo speed debate, that's been done before. However think of the impact on morale if the Scimitar was swatting all the E-E's torpedoes down.

The Enterprise was fighting an almost unbeatable enemy how much lower can moral go?

[Aaron]

The Enterprise was fighting an almost unbeatable enemy how much lower can moral go?

Hey the lower it goes, the more likely that they make a stupid and fatal mistake.

[mlsnoopy]

2 pages in one night not bad. But the Scimitar still has 52 distruptors. Thats fun.

[Graham Kennedy]

If they are CIWS types, they could be designed for hitting fighters rather than torpedoes. Just because modern CIWS hit both doesn't mean ones of this era can.

[Sionnach Glic]

If we assume that they're CIWS weapons, then we're still left with a problem with the dialogue.
As Seafort pointed out quite a while back, Worf would be completely out of order if he didn't inform Picard that 46 of those guns were of no real use in combat. Simply saying "it has 52 disruptors" would give Picard a distorted view of the Scimitar's capabilities that is far from reality.

So taking this sollution would lead us right back to the conclusion that Worf either fucked up massively or is an idiot, so it's in no way different than what me and Seafort have been suggesting all along.

[Tsukiyumi]

...So taking this sollution would lead us right back to the conclusion that Worf either f***ed up massively or is an idiot...

Perhaps he sent the data to everyone's stations (like we would assume), and there was no need for further exposition.

I'm still liking my theory, though.

[mlsnoopy]

So taking this sollution would lead us right back to the conclusion that Worf either f***ed up massively or is an idiot, so it's in no way different than what me and Seafort have been suggesting all along.

And still have no evidence for that. But hey everyone can have their own ilusions.

[Sionnach Glic]

Perhaps he sent the data to everyone's stations (like we would assume), and there was no need for further exposition.

Then why bother saying anything at all?
Also, I'm pretty sure Picard was standing in the middle of the bridge, away from any consoles. So Worf should have commented along the lines of "there's more info on the screen over there".

And still have no evidence for that. But hey everyone can have their own ilusions.

Look, let me put this nice and simply, so you can understand:

Picard ordered a rundown of the Scimitar's weapons.
Worf responds "it has 52 disruptors" and says nothing else.
Yet later on in the battle, only 5 disruptors (with the likelyhood of a sixth) are observed.

Now, we've two possible explainations:
1) There are really only 6 disruptors, and Worf made a mistake either through his own fault or through trickery on behalf of the Scimitar.
Or
2) There are 6 main disruptors, and the other 46 are too small to be of any use in combat with the E-E. Worf, being the tactical officer, should have mentioned this fact, as saying nothing would lead to a distorted view of the Scimitar's capabilities. Therefore, this explaination requires Worf to have made a mistake in not telling Picard of this fact.

Ergo, both possiblities require Worf to have made a mistake.

Now, if you can't understand that then I simply can't help you any more.

[Tsukiyumi]

So, we're just tossing out my theory that there are 52 disruptors, only they take forever to recharge, and we only see a few firing at once? I guess there's no way to prove or disprove that one, so it's not the best. Still fits, though.

[Sionnach Glic]

It's a possibility, but there's the fact that we've never seen a disruptor that takes in excess of a dozen seconds to power up. There's also the fact that, if it was equipped with such armament, it would make far more sense to charge them all up and unleash the entire battery at once.

[Captain Seafort]

Indeed, given the Scimitar's fire-while-cloaked ability, the best design would probably to equip her with the most powerful weapons possible, at the cost of a very long recharge time. They could then approach an unaware target, hit it with a devastating and possibly lethal alpha strike, and then pull away well outside weapons range to recharge. Unfortunately that's not what we saw - all the evidence from the battle points towards the ship having half a dozen normal weapons.