Sovereign class

[Teaos]

And, again, how does a possible increase in the happieness of the crew make up for all those major problems I mentioned?

Happy crew = productive crew. They will do there jobs better than they would other wise. The reason starfleet keeps ahead in science and technology is because of its people.

Do company buildings go looking for dangerous anomalies? No, but starships do. The chance of a Federation starship getting blown up is vastly more likely than a building getting bombed.

Children are in danger everywhere. In school they can get shot by other students in a build they can get hit by a plane in a car they can get in a crash.

Statistically a starship would be just the same or even safer than anything else.

We can count the amount of times the federation has lost ships with civilians on board with one hand. A few of those events would have happened even if it was a pure science vessel or even a cargo ship so they hardly count. The rest are down to starfleet not following prodedure or being stupid which agree with you on.

[Sionnach Glic]

Happy crew = productive crew. They will do there jobs better than they would other wise. The reason starfleet keeps ahead in science and technology is because of its people.

Or, through the fact that they are simply better at R&D?
And how could having more productive workers make up for such massive deficets? They sure as hell can't work hard enough to make up for such inneficiency in the design.

Children are in danger everywhere. In school they can get shot by other students in a build they can get hit by a plane in a car they can get in a crash.

Statistically a starship would be just the same or even safer than anything else.

Wrong. In a normal life, children don't go looking for these things to heppen. On a starship, they are made to go looking for these things.
Also, keep in mind that, due to the nature of their design, a Starfleet ship is a legitimate military target. How many children in real life are at risk of being gunned down by hostile forces?

We can count the amount of times the federation has lost ships with civilians on board with one hand.

That we've seen.

A few of those events would have happened even if it was a pure science vessel or even a cargo ship so they hardly count.

True, but they all could have avoided the loss of an important military asset.

The rest are down to starfleet not following prodedure or being stupid which agree with you on.

Agreed.

[Teaos]

Wrong. In a normal life, children don't go looking for these things to heppen. On a starship, they are made to go looking for these things.

I'm right on the statistics.

The fact that children don't go looking for danger? Or there families.

Lots of americans go look at old faithful, yet that has the potential to blow up and harm them. But they take precausions by standing back and take a calculated risk. My dad took me to see an active Volcano as many many familes do. The chances of me being injured was small but it was still there but we choose to take that risk. My dad put me in a car all the time arguably the most dangerous things he could have done.

Starships take safety measures when looking at stuff just like everyone does.

[Sionnach Glic]

Lots of americans go look at old faithful, yet that has the potential to blow up and harm them. But they take precausions by standing back and take a calculated risk. My dad took me to see an active Volcano as many many familes do. The chances of me being injured was small but it was still there but we choose to take that risk. My dad put me in a car all the time arguably the most dangerous things he could have done.

The chances of a geyser or volcano going off and killing you is far less likely than you getting killed on a Fedreation starship. Those things are just accidents waiting to happen.

As for the car, you are right. But does this mean we shouldn't be worried about putting children in more danger than is necassary?
There is zero reasons that necesitate having children in such a dangerous enviroment, people don't join the military for a comfy life, and the slight possibilty of having crewmen work harder does not nullify the major defects in design that having so many civilians on board.

[Teaos]

There is zero reasons that necesitate having children in such a dangerous enviroment, people don't join the military for a comfy life, and the slight possibilty of having crewmen work harder does not nullify the major defects in design that having so many civilians on board.

In modern day business's it is not a slight chance it is a proven and rather large jump in productivity. Thats why the companies invest MILLIONS in these programmes.

I've said I dont think they should be on something like an Akira but a Galaxy when it is used how it is supposed to be used is a good place for them.

[Sionnach Glic]

In modern day business's it is not a slight chance it is a proven and rather large jump in productivity. Thats why the companies invest MILLIONS in these programmes.

Again, I'll point out that company =/= starship.
Should we start putting children on aircraft carriers? After all, it increases productivity...

I've said I dont think they should be on something like an Akira but a Galaxy when it is used how it is supposed to be used is a good place for them.

Both ships are used in combat, both ships go looking for dangerous spatial anomalies. Neither of them is a good place for children.

[Teaos]

Again, I'll point out that company =/= starship.

Why not? Both have workers who need to get a job done. Both have boss' who need to get the best out of them. Both have work that need to be done.

Both ships are used in combat, both ships go looking for dangerous spatial anomalies. Neither of them is a good place for children.

I said as the galaxy was intended. It was supposed to be an explorer who would only use there weapons in self defence if the really needed to.

[Sionnach Glic]

Why not? Both have workers who need to get a job done. Both have boss' who need to get the best out of them. Both have work that need to be done.

Because the company does not send its workers into dangerous situations that could result in their deaths. Starfleet sends all its workers into such situations, and poorly equiped at that.

I said as the galaxy was intended. It was supposed to be an explorer who would only use there weapons in self defence if the really needed to.

The problem is, that's not how its actually used. So saying 'if it was used how it was supposed to' is completely irrelevant.

[Teaos]

Because the company does not send its workers into dangerous situations that could result in their deaths. Starfleet sends all its workers into such situations, and poorly equiped at that.

Death rates in stafleet are very slim (Excuding war when civilians are off ships). You know that 17 people a year die from choaking on pens? Seems pretty dangeros.

[Sionnach Glic]

Death rates in stafleet are very slim (Excuding war when civilians are off ships).

Yes, on one ship. Even if each ship only has five deaths a year, then, going by Graham's 7000 ship fleet, that would be thirty five thousand deaths a year. Not counting things like reactor malfunctions, combat with alien ships, spatial anomalies, etc, etc, etc.

Are you still sure that this is a good enviroment to raise a child in?

You know that 17 people a year die from choaking on pens? Seems pretty dangeros.

You'd have to be pretty darn stupid to die from choking on a pen.

And, as I pointed out above, that's nowhere near the casualty rate Starfleet may have in peacetime.

[Teaos]

5 people a year on a starship? What from. A normal starship doesn't lose people. Even if they occasionally did it would be crew not civilians who bum around school and quarters.

[Sionnach Glic]

5 people a year on a starship? What from.

I would hardly call Fedreation ships 'safe'. There are all sorts of accidents that could happen.
Falling cargo crates, falling off a ladder, holodeck malfunction, reactor problems, enviromental failure, hull breach, accidental weapon discharge, electrocution, death by console, choking on a pen, fire, etc.
All of which have either been seen in canon, or are obvious risks.
Hell, siting down at a computer is a risk in the Federation.

Even if they occasionally did it would be crew not civilians who bum around school and quarters.

Er, how can you guarantee someone isn't just in the wrong place at the wrong time? There are plenty of things that can go wrong.

[Teaos]

Falling cargo crates, When are they in the cargo holds? They could be hit by something falling back on earth.

falling off a ladder, Could hapen anywhere.

holodeck malfunction, Anywhere.

reactor problems, A risk but slight.

enviromental failure, Hit by lighting on earth or something like that.

hull breach, Rear.

accidental weapon discharge, When are weapons around civilians.

electrocution, Could happen anywhere.

death by console, Anywhere.

choking on a pen, A risk we all take.

fire, Anywhere.


Starships hold the same risks as life anywhere else.[/quote][/list]

[Sionnach Glic]

Falling cargo crates, When are they in the cargo holds?

We've seen Wesley in the cargo hold before when he wasn't an ensign.

They could be hit by something falling back on earth.

True, but the point is that there is still a risk.

falling off a ladder, Could hapen anywhere.

Except that there are far more ladders on a Starship than the average home.

holodeck malfunction, Anywhere.

Except that people are far more likely to be using the holodecks on a starship. When they're at home they would be working or doing other things.

reactor problems, A risk but slight.

Well, if you define 'slight' as 'living on a ship with the worst safety systems in all of sci-fi', then yeah, you're right.
But there is little risk of this happening if you were at home.

enviromental failure, Hit by lighting on earth or something like that.

Except, there is a far higher chance of a computer controled system screwing up than there is of being hit by lightning.

hull breach, Rear.

It's still a possibility.

accidental weapon discharge, When are weapons around civilians.

Er, almost constantly. They're on a ship which is sent into dangerous situations, the crew is armed. Ergo, there are weapons around them. And Federation phasers apear to have the worst safety features possible.

electrocution, Could happen anywhere.

True, but at least when you're at home you're not surrounded by plasma.

death by console, Anywhere.

I seriously hope that Federation citizens have safer computers at home than those on a Starship...

choking on a pen, A risk we all take.

Only if you're stupid enough to put the pen in your mouth.

fire, Anywhere.

Except there is nowhere to run to on a starship.

Starships hold the same risks as life anywhere else

Yeah, and plenty more as well.

[Captain Seafort]

Lets see how many ships have been mentioned as lost, damaged or threatened with destruction or the loss of the crew over TNG's run.

Season 1
The Naked Now - The Tchaikovsky lost with all hands
The Last Outpost - The Enterprise threatened by the T'Kon outpost
The Battle - The Stargazer lost nine years earlier
Home Soil - The Enterprise threatened by the microbrain
The Arsenal of Freedom - The Drake lost with all hands
Conspiracy - The Horatio lost with all hands

Season 2
The Child - The Enterprise threatened by virus samples it was transporting
Where Silence Has Lease - the Enterprise is almost lost to an experimenting alien
Elementary Dear Data - the Enterprise is almost lost to a holographic terrorist
The Schizoid Man - The transport Mary Rodgers severely damaged
Unnatural selection - The Lantree's entire crew killed by hyperaging
Contaigon - The Yamato lost with all hands, and th same almost happening to the Enterprise
Time Squared - The Enterprise lost with all hands save Picard
Q Who? - The Enterprise damaged by the Borg with the loss of 18 crew members

Season 3
Evolution - The Enterprise threatened by nanites
Booby Trap - The Enterprise thretened by ancient energy draining weapons
Hollow Pursuits - The Enterprise is almost lost to an engine malfunction
Best of Both Worlds - The Enterprise damaged and suffers casualties in several Borg engagements, 11,000 lives lost at Wolf 359.

Season 4
Remember Me - The Enterprise almost loses her Doctor to an out-of-control experiment
Clues - The Enterprise is threatened with destruction by isolationist aliens
Galaxy's Child - the Enterprise is almost lost to an interstellar alien
Night Terrors - the Brattain is lost to a Tyken's rift and the Enterprise nearly follows
The Nth Degree - the Enterprise is threatened by an alien probe

Season 5
Disaster - the Enterprise is badly damaged by a "quantum filament"
New Ground - The Enterprise is damaged during the conduct of a propulsion experiment
Hero Worship - The Vico is lost to a dark matter nebula, and the Enterprise almost follows
Cause and Effect - the Enterprise is lost (repeatedly) to a collision.
The Next Phase - the Enterprise is almost lost to Romulan sabotage

Season 6
Realm of Fear - the Yosmite is lost in a planet's atmosphere
Relics - the Enterprise is almost lost in a Dyson Sphere
Rascals - the Enterprise is captured by the Ferengi
Ship in a Bottle - the Enterprise is almost lost to a holographic terrorist (again).
Timescape - the Enterprise is lost to a power-transfer accident

Season 7
Interface - the Raman and the Hera are lost with all hands
Force of Nature - the Fleming and the Enterprise are almost lost in a subpace rift
Genesis - the Enterprise's entires crew "de-evolves"
Emergence - the Enterprise is almost lost to a wierd particle build-up.

That's just TNG. I think we can safely say that space travel is a tad hazardous.